NLP and HUNA? https://bhuna101.runboard.com/t59036 Runboard| NLP and HUNA? en-us Fri, 29 Mar 2024 04:41:06 +0000 Fri, 29 Mar 2024 04:41:06 +0000 https://www.runboard.com/ rssfeeds_managingeditor@runboard.com (Runboard.com RSS feeds managing editor) rssfeeds_webmaster@runboard.com (Runboard.com RSS feeds webmaster) akBBS 60 Re: NLP and HUNA?https://bhuna101.runboard.com/p300440,from=rss#post300440https://bhuna101.runboard.com/p300440,from=rss#post300440Right. I don't believe the nlp technique phobia cure will work, when you are under great shock, panic, phobia. Maybe some great teacher like Richard Bundler will help me.NO.Even mention the memory and the reactions start. This technique is for some light fear. Show me nlp teachers. Modeling and anchor techiques +swish pattern work, but Ha Prayer work high above. Aloha...nondisclosed_email@example.com (miromir)Tue, 16 Nov 2010 15:46:52 +0000 Re: NLP and HUNA?https://bhuna101.runboard.com/p300366,from=rss#post300366https://bhuna101.runboard.com/p300366,from=rss#post300366quote:Maybe one of things, that we must make here in this lifetime is to blend most of the systems for self development, but in order we must forget the names-nlp, huna, hermetic order of Golden Dawn and so on. You just put your finger on it. Our mission here is to learn and grow both mentally and spiritually. Those are the only things we can take with us when we leave.nondisclosed_email@example.com (Two Bears)Sat, 27 Jun 2009 11:42:35 +0000 Re: NLP and HUNA?https://bhuna101.runboard.com/p300364,from=rss#post300364https://bhuna101.runboard.com/p300364,from=rss#post300364Maybe one of things, that we must make here in this lifetime is to blend most of the systems for self development, but in order we must forget the names-nlp, huna, hermetic order of Golden Dawn and so on. Here is my point about Time Line exercice-it is a wish to project your mind into the future for making your dream cometrue.In reality it is an old exercise-written in an article by Donald Michael Kraig-the author of Modern Magick. For Tad James, when I watch him in a video I feel , that this man is making money " Teacher ", you know we are clairvoyance in one way or another. Other thing to mention is the structure of his site with marketing hints to buy from him, like the method Silva sites. Maybe one of the things to know someone is first to look at their sales letter. For example in www.meta-magick.com Philip Farber does not make such sales letters. All the best From Stefan from Bulgaria.nondisclosed_email@example.com (miromir)Wed, 24 Jun 2009 05:49:55 +0000 Re: NLP and HUNA?https://bhuna101.runboard.com/p299639,from=rss#post299639https://bhuna101.runboard.com/p299639,from=rss#post299639quote:That is an interesting story. I have read another one, and that was about Daddy Bray visiting MFL in Vista, and asking for his permission to use huna "brand" for his teachings (he went to teach huna in California), and chanted a blessing on his house when he left. If MFL knew or thought Bray wasn't a real kahuna, what would be the point to meet him or let him chant. Maybe that MFL was just a nice person so he let him do it. But it was said he mentioned it in his newsletter, why would he do that? To get more backing for his Huna by "having a real kahuna come for approval and talk"? Anyway, this connection of the two stories is just a pure speculation on my side. There are so many stories floating around and hard to make up the mind on it all. Maybe it's not even that important after all... Huna mind: All I can tell you is how the story was told to me by two people who knew MFL, and neither of them knew I was asking the other person. The two people who told me that story are Vinson Wingo, and the author Brad Steiger. In the years I have been walking this path; I have encountered many rare and hard to find books, and made some good friends; like Arlyn J. MacDonald, Brad Steiger, Tom Lewis, etc, and many other students of this path.nondisclosed_email@example.com (Two Bears)Tue, 06 Jun 2006 20:56:24 +0000 Re: NLP and HUNA?https://bhuna101.runboard.com/p299638,from=rss#post299638https://bhuna101.runboard.com/p299638,from=rss#post299638quote:Two Bears wrote: I have had two men I trust tell me that David K. Bray was a kahuna in name only. The story was that in the kate 1920s or early 1930s there was a hotel built in Hawaii, and they were holding a beauty contest of some kind, and they could not get any Hawai'ians to work for the hotel because the hotel wad not been blessed by a kahuna. the owners said fine; just ask one of your kahuna to bless the hotel; and no go because they were areaid the kahuna would be persecuted for practising the old ways; so they tried to find a kahuna to bless the hotel and no go. They finally went to meet with MFL to see if he knew any kahuna; again the answer was no (that he did not know any kahuna at the time; but said he DID have the blessing chant if that would help them. So they found David K. Bray because of his weird appearance, and they paid him $50 to memorize and perform the blessing chant so the Hawai'ians would work there. After David K. Bray was acknowledged as a kahuna; he took the ball and ran with it. That is an interesting story. I have read another one, and that was about Daddy Bray visiting MFL in Vista, and asking for his permission to use huna "brand" for his teachings (he went to teach huna in California), and chanted a blessing on his house when he left. If MFL knew or thought Bray wasn't a real kahuna, what would be the point to meet him or let him chant. Maybe that MFL was just a nice person so he let him do it. But it was said he mentioned it in his newsletter, why would he do that? To get more backing for his Huna by "having a real kahuna come for approval and talk"? Anyway, this connection of the two stories is just a pure speculation on my side. There are so many stories floating around and hard to make up the mind on it all. Maybe it's not even that important after all...nondisclosed_email@example.com (huna mind)Tue, 06 Jun 2006 17:51:27 +0000 Re: NLP and HUNA?https://bhuna101.runboard.com/p299637,from=rss#post299637https://bhuna101.runboard.com/p299637,from=rss#post299637I'm sure you will be able to find people who's willing to share - I for instance have no qualms about it. I like to do it just for the extra practice. But I'm no expert, more like still a student. I was actually thinking that it maybe would have been possible for you to join a study group somewhere, don't know if there are any in South Korea, though. These would surely be for free, but the quality will most likely not be like a formal training. I think maybe the best thing would be to ally with a friend, get to know some basics and then just go out and practice. Too many people try to learn NLP just by reading. And yet, a fundamental principle in NLP is to throw away anything that doesn't really work. And how will you ever know if you don't apply what you learn? I know there are several institutions giving you discounts if your a student for instance, and maybe even if you really are poor. But then again, some of the institutions would say "hey, if you're poor you can't really afford NOT to sign up for this training!". The only way to know for sure is to ask. A money back guarantee would suffice for me in most situations, and I think most institutions will offer you that. A lot of the institutions also have free introductory nights, a good way to check out what they have to offer and how you feel about the whole thing. But travelling to another country just for this isn't exactly cost efficient! I think giving and caring is probably as important as you. But I sure feel the giving should go both ways. And to a "master" I have little less to offer than my money as of yet. Sure, voluntary donations are fine. But let me ask you this: Did you truly donate what you thought the Lamas teachings was worth? Maybe you did, but most people won't. To be honest, I don't fully understand the 3D-mind thing yet my self either, even though I "learned" it at the seminars. Looking at the questions from the 3D-mind forums, it sometimes seems that Tom (and maybe Kim) is the only one who really understands it. But I think it's still a developing modell, so I don't really blame Tom. Except from maybe presenting it as a finished modell able to fix most of your problems. Sure, it works, if you just don't happen to make any mistakes. And there are lots of possible mistakes to make. I guess the videos don't really go into that, and you need to update yourself through the forums to really be able to use it efficiently. I haven't really found it worthwhile to do that yet, although I notice some people are clearly huge believers in this product...nondisclosed_email@example.com (Lillelord)Wed, 27 Apr 2005 03:43:05 +0000 Re: NLP and HUNA?https://bhuna101.runboard.com/p299636,from=rss#post299636https://bhuna101.runboard.com/p299636,from=rss#post299636  Thanks for your detailed reply.    As for Scientology, it's not worth checking into.     On the charging money front, Are there any NLPers who are compassionate enough to share what they've got freely with the less fortunate?     Not that I am not 'able' to pay. Just that I personally witnessed even highly realized Tibetan Lamas willingly teach people with voluntary donation of whatever amount. That's what I meant by 'giving' and 'caring' aspect. I don't think NLP can offer what Tibetan Buddhism can't offer to their students on a deeper level.    But, hey, I am biased as well. No flames intended.    I bought Tom Vizzini's 3-D mind. The tapes didn't come with any booklets or notes. Very unprofessional. And it was badly edited. Most of all, Tom and I just didn't click.   So, RJ was introduced into NLP thru Kim? Very interesting, indeed. RJ incorporated Tom and Kim's 3-D mind seminar as part of his own seminar these days as he did with Mark Cunningham in the past.    I live in Seoul, Korea. Of course, there are some NLP seminars happening here on a small scale, but I'd rather take part in seminars being conducted in English from teachers who are more experienced and have some HUNA wisdom.    Thanks. nondisclosed_email@example.com (ebs10452004)Tue, 26 Apr 2005 07:44:44 +0000 Re: NLP and HUNA?https://bhuna101.runboard.com/p299635,from=rss#post299635https://bhuna101.runboard.com/p299635,from=rss#post299635I didn't exactly compare Scientology with NLP in general - I have way too little information about Scientology to make such a comparison. It was more a comment on Tad James' Huna courses and how he supposedly teaches very little content (which is also the case of Scientology, from what I've read). Maybe you can tell me a little more of Scientology, what it actually is and if it's worth checking into? If you're able to, that is Now, in general, i think it is ok to charge people money, even a lot of money, if what they're teaching is usefull. I wonder why people think it's more acceptable to give their money to moviestars and business-tycoons. Are these truly the people who contribute the most to our lives? And although the "spiritual" teachers often isn't really that interested money, does that mean they should be next to beggars? Seriously, I think this is one of the major flaws in our society's thinking. Specifically, I feel that I have been given very much value (usefull content) for my investments in all my NLP trainings. This doesn't mean that there are people in the NLP community who doesn't really know what they are doing, and who is obviously overcharging as a result of this. About Tom Vizzini, I've actually been to his seminars. Although I don't think he's one of the best NLP'ers, I still feel he has something to offer. And with a money back guarantee, you really can't go wrong, right? I wouldn't say I was completely satisfied after the seminars however, and I think also some of the tapes they sell are kind of old now, and outdated. What were the tapes you bought? You said you've only read a little bit of NLP through the SS stuff? Maybe you needed a little bit more of an understanding of the basics of NLP to find the essential skills videos usefull? As you point out, I would recommend going to a proper training where you can get realtime feedback and instructions to learn NLP. It's not very feasible to learn NLP from books (or even videotapes I would assume). And as Tom himself would ask (and probably did too!), did you actually try the stuff to see if it works, or did it just seem too strange? I don't know if you know this, but Ross Jeffries was actually introduced to NLP by Kim McFarland (Tom's partner) back when they were flatmates in college (or something). Although I'm not "intimately" familiar with Ross' stuff I think it's fair to say they've all influenced eachother. They've just taken the applications in different directions. I f you find RJ stuff usefull, I'd be surprised if you didn't find anything usefull in the Essential Skills videos. But again, I haven't seen them. Tom clearly knows his stuff about anchoring, and also have some pretty interesting theories around rapport, amongst other things, though I haven't seen any of his tapes. And since coming up with the 3D-mind, Tom seems to think this is the only tool which will give you a lasting change. This is of course simply not true. I used to think Tom was great a couple of years back, but now he seems a bit to full of himself, basically telling his ways are the best. I would in no way replace my teacher with Tom for instance. I'm not familiar with Alfred Korzypski's works, and to my knowledge NLP is not based on any of his ideas. But I know it has some basis in General systems theory, which maybe is what Korzypski's work was about? Main influences that I know of in creating NLP was (apart from the three genious therapist on their fields, Erickson, Virginia Satir and Fritz Pearls) Gregory Bateson and linguists such as Noam Chomsky. But like me, I'm sure you can find referances to concepts and ideas in NLP in lots of different sources. Whether they actually influenced NLP, or is just describing the same phenomenas - who knows, apart from Bandler and Grinder? Now, finally, to your questions - who would I recommend? Well, certainly my trainer, Mike Cechanovicz. Although originally an American, he's been living in Norway for the last 25 years and conducts his seminars in Norwegian. He would just as easily be able to hold them in English, though he has no current plans to do so. Apart from him, if caring and giving is what you're after, maybe Steve or Connirea Andreas would be the ones to choose? I'm not sure how much basic training these guys do anymore, but I know they had some in the summer of 2004. Also, you can't go wrong with John Grinder - but again I don't think he does much basic training anymore. Robert Dilts is also very good, but I'm unsure about how much of his training is directed towards business consulting these days. And this is not what you want, right? The same can be said about Ian McDermott. The persons I've listed here are more or less all #1 persons in the NLP community, but there might be other people that are more fitting to your needs. From my experience, it seems that all teachers have their own individual style, not only in how they teach but also what they teach. This to me is, of course, part of what makes the NLP community great. There's always places to pick up some new ideas from. Ross Jeffries is for instance totally different from John Grinder, who himself is more or less the opposite of Richard Bandler (these days anyways), whereas Dilts is yet again emphesises something totally different. You know what I mean. Let me know where you live, and I can try to recommend someone nearby. As to who in the NLP community is the most learned in Huna, I must honestly say I don't know. Tad James is certainly the one who most actively advertises it. Tom Vizzini also has a some knowledge, which is evident through his money magnet stuff for instance, but I know he doesn't really believe in the Huna "model". There are a couple of other persons as well, but I don't remember their names right now. I'll be happy to look into it when I get back from my holiday. Now, just out of chance, because I really do believe "coincidences" do happen, does anybody know of a good Qi Gong trainer in Chengdu, China. I'll be staying here for a couple of weeks and it would be great to learn some from a Chinese master... Lillelordnondisclosed_email@example.com (Lillelord)Tue, 26 Apr 2005 04:57:21 +0000 Re: NLP and HUNA?https://bhuna101.runboard.com/p299634,from=rss#post299634https://bhuna101.runboard.com/p299634,from=rss#post299634  It sure was very informative, lillielord.     Like you described, NLP community in general is increasingly more focused on making money than helping people. And your Scientology comparison rings very true. About 15 years ago, I was audited all the way up to OT 9 or whatever. Cost me an arm and a leg. Pretty much the same thing is happening in NLP I suppose.     Even now, Richard Bandler is making up more and more trademark stuff to get his NLP engine going. As for Tom Vizzini, well, I ordered his tapes and returned them on the first viewing. He hasn't got a clue. I wonder how a person like him can become a teacher in his own right.     I studied Alfred Korzypski's Science and Sanity about 20 years ago. But can't remember much of what I read. Some said that much of NLP and Scientology is based on Korzipski's ideas. Would you agree?      By the way, I only read a little bit about NLP - and its seduction application from RJ-, but I gathered that proper training is in order. But, most NLP people I talked to seemed to lack 'heart'. They just seemed like smart asses. If I decided to learn NLP properly, I'd really like to learn from someone who's truly caring and giving. Can you recommend anyone?     Who was your NLP mentor? And who do you think, in NLP community, is the most learned in the field of HUNA?      Cheers    nondisclosed_email@example.com (ebs10452004)Mon, 25 Apr 2005 06:44:23 +0000 Re: NLP and HUNA?https://bhuna101.runboard.com/p299633,from=rss#post299633https://bhuna101.runboard.com/p299633,from=rss#post299633Hello again everyone! I've haven't been here for a while, as I've been travelling around in China for some months now. However, I really feel I have something to contribute to these post. First of all, let me start by telling you that I am a NLP Master Practitioner, which means I've had about 400 hours of training, as well as reading numerous books, articles ect. Obviously I wouldn't have been spending my time (and money!) doing this if I didn't thought it was worthwhile. In my opinion NLP and Huna blends perfectly together. NLP gives you a lot of different tools to work with both your concious and unconcious mind (with hypnosis being one of the most effective), whereas Huna has a more spiritual approach. NLP is certainly a lot more than training the unihipili through positive speach - actually I wouldn't consider this to be part of NLP at all. My trainer/mentor in NLP was the one who introduced me to Huna, and in his training he included "Huna" teachings like the higher self, and even how to contact it through trance and dreams. Not all NLP teachers and institutions does this however. (From what I've been told, the inventors of NLP wanted to keep it non-religious/spiritual and focus more on the practical applications.) Nowadays he is more and more moving away from NLP and towards this "spirituality". Still he feels (and me too!) NLP gives you unvaluable tools that Huna for instance, does not provide. For the record I would also like to say that I feel there is nothing that can be done with Huna that can't be done with NLP, and vice versa. To be honest, I prefer NLP, partly because I'm unable to get any communication going with my unihipili while in the silence (any suggestions folks? There simply is no reply to my questions. I'm pretty sure I can enter the silence state, but from there it's just nothing...). With NLP we would use trance to get in direct communication with the unconscious mind (unihipili), and I've been 100% sure that the answers has come from unihipili (I feel it very strongly). With Huna I have to say I either don't know if it's my conscious mind, or there's just nothing going on at all (no replies). Now, about Tad James, my mentor was actually trained by Tad in the early 1990s. Although he obviously is very good with what his doing with NLP, and has a certain knowledge of Huna as well, my mentor feels Tad is more and more preoccupied with making money. This is supposedly evident through his Huna seminars. From various sources my mentor have heard that it's more or less "Oh, you'll just love what we well be doing/achieving on the NEXT level!" all the time, making you pay more and more to get to the interesting parts (Somewhat like scientology, anyone??). I know my mentor would like to get some Huna-training by someone who really knows what he's doing, but Tad James is NOT someone he would consider. Timeline Therapy is basically just a NLP format (or application) which Tad James invented and copyrighted (just another example of how he is more interested in making money than sharing knowledge). It is effective, but I feel other techniques offered by NLP is more usefull. Timeline Therapy is an example of what has been going on alot in the NLP community for a while now. NLP gives you the tools to create your own specific techniques to induce change, and in order to stand out from the crowd some people find the need to call their stuff something else than NLP. An example of this would for instance be Anthony Robbins, who I'm sure some of you at least has heard of. Robbins commercialised NLP and is doing what I call NLP light - giving you some tools but not the structure of the tools (making people return for more/better tools later in stead of teaching them the basics that allows people to create their own tools as needed). Robbins, of course, no longer calls this NLP, though almost all his stuff is NLP-related. Another example is the people behind the 3D-mind (see www.essential-skills.com) For those of you still interested in NLP, you might consider reading the books "Structure of magic" I & II or better yet, read anything of or about Milton Erickson, the genious hypnotherapist who formed one of the basis for the development of NLP. The way he treated some of his patients seems to be pure and simple magic, and NLP gives you tools to explain and reproduced what Erickson did. I find most of Ericksons writings to be both stimulating and higly amusing reading. If you have any questions about NLP/Erickson and Huna, please feel free to ask. As I'm still travelling I don't know when I'll be able to check the posts, but I'll try to do it every now and again. Cheers, Larsnondisclosed_email@example.com (Lillelord)Mon, 25 Apr 2005 05:10:49 +0000 Re: NLP and HUNA?https://bhuna101.runboard.com/p299632,from=rss#post299632https://bhuna101.runboard.com/p299632,from=rss#post299632quote:I've worked with NLP some, it seems to me to be mostly about training the unihipili through conscious positive speech. Don't recognise either of those names. I have read a bit about NLP; but nowhere enough to form a credible opinion yet. Another one I examined is Timeline therapy. but I only read one book by Tad James, and can not offer a credible opinion on that therapy yet either.nondisclosed_email@example.com (Two Bears)Mon, 28 Mar 2005 12:08:40 +0000 Re: NLP and HUNA?https://bhuna101.runboard.com/p299631,from=rss#post299631https://bhuna101.runboard.com/p299631,from=rss#post299631I've worked with NLP some, it seems to me to be mostly about training the unihipili through conscious positive speech. Don't recognise either of those names. Read a book by one of the founders of NLP, don't recall his name, though the name of the book was "Using your brain for a change". The book had a few good nuggets in between a lot of nonsense. Take it with a huge block of salt, the kind they put out for cows to lick.nondisclosed_email@example.com (joni50)Sat, 26 Mar 2005 21:08:34 +0000 Re: NLP and HUNA?https://bhuna101.runboard.com/p299630,from=rss#post299630https://bhuna101.runboard.com/p299630,from=rss#post299630quote:Now, that's quite a story, 2B! A weird looking islander made good! I felt something similar with the 'uncle George' character.   Thanks for the info. Just relaying the information that I received after I started digging for information about "The Last initiated kahuna of Hawai'i" (ie Daddy Bray.). nondisclosed_email@example.com (Two Bears)Fri, 04 Mar 2005 12:26:13 +0000 Re: NLP and HUNA?https://bhuna101.runboard.com/p299629,from=rss#post299629https://bhuna101.runboard.com/p299629,from=rss#post299629  Now, that's quite a story, 2B! A weird looking islander made good! I felt something similar with the 'uncle George' character.   Thanks for the info. Maxnondisclosed_email@example.com (ebs10452004)Thu, 03 Mar 2005 18:29:34 +0000 Re: NLP and HUNA?https://bhuna101.runboard.com/p299628,from=rss#post299628https://bhuna101.runboard.com/p299628,from=rss#post299628quote:the famous NLPer Tad James and 'uncle George' seems to have a HUNA tradition of their own. Are they MFL followers? Or something totally different from traditional approach.   Just curious. quote: 2B or Daylia. Do you know anything about these guys? They were not mentioned as one of the traditions here on the site. That is a great question Max. I thought I wrote something about Tad James (maybe it was where I placed his "Lost Secrets Of Huna" by Mr. James in the "Not Recommended list." Tad James: Tad takes his perception of Hawai'ian mysticism from the understanding of David Kaonhikala Bray. So Mr, Janes would be in the David Bray Tradition. I have had two men I trust tell me that David K. Bray was a kahuna in name only. The story was that in the kate 1920s or early 1930s there was a hotel built in Hawaii, and they were holding a beauty contest of some kind, and they could not get any Hawai'ians to work for the hotel because the hotel wad not been blessed by a kahuna. the owners said fine; just ask one of your kahuna to bless the hotel; and no go because they were areaid the kahuna would be persecuted for practising the old ways; so they tried to find a kahuna to bless the hotel and no go. They finally went to meet with MFL to see if he knew any kahuna; again the answer was no (that he did not know any kahuna at the time; but said he DID have the blessing chant if that would help them. So they found David K. Bray because of his weird appearance, and they paid him $50 to memorize and perform the blessing chant so the Hawai'ians would work there. After David K. Bray was acknowledged as a kahuna; he took the ball and ran with it. I read the book by David K Bray :The Kahuna Religion Of Hawaii" In my opinion that 59 page book is nonsence and dangerous if practised. That is Two Bears opinion.nondisclosed_email@example.com (Two Bears)Thu, 03 Mar 2005 13:23:18 +0000 NLP and HUNA?https://bhuna101.runboard.com/p299627,from=rss#post299627https://bhuna101.runboard.com/p299627,from=rss#post299627  the famous NLPer Tad James and 'uncle George' seems to have a HUNA tradition of their own. Are they MFL followers? Or something totally different from traditional approach.   Just curious.   2B or Daylia. Do you know anything about these guys? They were not mentioned as one of the traditions here on the site. Maxnondisclosed_email@example.com (ebs10452004)Thu, 03 Mar 2005 09:42:18 +0000