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NLP and HUNA?


  the famous NLPer Tad James and 'uncle George' seems to have a HUNA tradition of their own. Are they MFL followers? Or something totally different from traditional approach.
  Just curious.

  2B or Daylia. Do you know anything about these guys? They were not mentioned as one of the traditions here on the site.

Max
Mar/3/2005, 9:42 am Link to this post Send Email to ebs10452004   Send PM to ebs10452004
 
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Re: NLP and HUNA?


quote:

the famous NLPer Tad James and 'uncle George' seems to have a HUNA tradition of their own. Are they MFL followers? Or something totally different from traditional approach.
  Just curious.



quote:

2B or Daylia. Do you know anything about these guys? They were not mentioned as one of the traditions here on the site.



That is a great question Max.

I thought I wrote something about Tad James (maybe it was where I placed his "Lost Secrets Of Huna" by Mr. James in the "Not Recommended list."

Tad James: Tad takes his perception of Hawai'ian mysticism from the understanding of David Kaonhikala Bray. So Mr, Janes would be in the David Bray Tradition.

I have had two men I trust tell me that David K. Bray was a kahuna in name only.

The story was that in the kate 1920s or early 1930s there was a hotel built in Hawaii, and they were holding a beauty contest of some kind, and they could not get any Hawai'ians to work for the hotel because the hotel wad not been blessed by a kahuna. the owners said fine; just ask one of your kahuna to bless the hotel; and no go because they were areaid the kahuna would be persecuted for practising the old ways; so they tried to find a kahuna to bless the hotel and no go. They finally went to meet with MFL to see if he knew any kahuna; again the answer was no (that he did not know any kahuna at the time; but said he DID have the blessing chant if that would help them. So they found David K. Bray because of his weird appearance, and they paid him $50 to memorize and perform the blessing chant so the Hawai'ians would work there.

After David K. Bray was acknowledged as a kahuna; he took the ball and ran with it.

I read the book by David K Bray :The Kahuna Religion Of Hawaii"

In my opinion that 59 page book is nonsence and dangerous if practised. That is Two Bears opinion.

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Aloha. Rev. Two Bears

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Re: NLP and HUNA?


 emoticon Now, that's quite a story, 2B! A weird looking islander made good! I felt something similar with the 'uncle George' character.
  Thanks for the info.

Max
Mar/3/2005, 6:29 pm Link to this post Send Email to ebs10452004   Send PM to ebs10452004
 
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Re: NLP and HUNA?


quote:

Now, that's quite a story, 2B! A weird looking islander made good! I felt something similar with the 'uncle George' character.
  Thanks for the info.



Just relaying the information that I received after I started digging for information about "The Last initiated kahuna of Hawai'i" (ie Daddy Bray.).


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"I hope you know this violates my warranty"Twiki
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Re: NLP and HUNA?


I've worked with NLP some, it seems to me to be mostly about training the unihipili through conscious positive speech. Don't recognise either of those names.

Read a book by one of the founders of NLP, don't recall his name, though the name of the book was "Using your brain for a change". The book had a few good nuggets in between a lot of nonsense. Take it with a huge block of salt, the kind they put out for cows to lick.
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Re: NLP and HUNA?


quote:

I've worked with NLP some, it seems to me to be mostly about training the unihipili through conscious positive speech. Don't recognise either of those names.



I have read a bit about NLP; but nowhere enough to form a credible opinion yet.

Another one I examined is Timeline therapy. but I only read one book by Tad James, and can not offer a credible opinion on that therapy yet either.

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"I hope you know this violates my warranty"Twiki
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Re: NLP and HUNA?


Hello again everyone!

I've haven't been here for a while, as I've been travelling around in China for some months now. However, I really feel I have something to contribute to these post.

First of all, let me start by telling you that I am a NLP Master Practitioner, which means I've had about 400 hours of training, as well as reading numerous books, articles ect. Obviously I wouldn't have been spending my time (and money!) doing this if I didn't thought it was worthwhile. In my opinion NLP and Huna blends perfectly together. NLP gives you a lot of different tools to work with both your concious and unconcious mind (with hypnosis being one of the most effective), whereas Huna has a more spiritual approach. NLP is certainly a lot more than training the unihipili through positive speach - actually I wouldn't consider this to be part of NLP at all.

My trainer/mentor in NLP was the one who introduced me to Huna, and in his training he included "Huna" teachings like the higher self, and even how to contact it through trance and dreams. Not all NLP teachers and institutions does this however. (From what I've been told, the inventors of NLP wanted to keep it non-religious/spiritual and focus more on the practical applications.) Nowadays he is more and more moving away from NLP and towards this "spirituality". Still he feels (and me too!) NLP gives you unvaluable tools that Huna for instance, does not provide. For the record I would also like to say that I feel there is nothing that can be done with Huna that can't be done with NLP, and vice versa. To be honest, I prefer NLP, partly because I'm unable to get any communication going with my unihipili while in the silence (any suggestions folks? There simply is no reply to my questions. I'm pretty sure I can enter the silence state, but from there it's just nothing...). With NLP we would use trance to get in direct communication with the unconscious mind (unihipili), and I've been 100% sure that the answers has come from unihipili (I feel it very strongly). With Huna I have to say I either don't know if it's my conscious mind, or there's just nothing going on at all (no replies).

Now, about Tad James, my mentor was actually trained by Tad in the early 1990s. Although he obviously is very good with what his doing with NLP, and has a certain knowledge of Huna as well, my mentor feels Tad is more and more preoccupied with making money. This is supposedly evident through his Huna seminars. From various sources my mentor have heard that it's more or less "Oh, you'll just love what we well be doing/achieving on the NEXT level!" all the time, making you pay more and more to get to the interesting parts (Somewhat like scientology, anyone??). I know my mentor would like to get some Huna-training by someone who really knows what he's doing, but Tad James is NOT someone he would consider.

Timeline Therapy is basically just a NLP format (or application) which Tad James invented and copyrighted (just another example of how he is more interested in making money than sharing knowledge). It is effective, but I feel other techniques offered by NLP is more usefull. Timeline Therapy is an example of what has been going on alot in the NLP community for a while now. NLP gives you the tools to create your own specific techniques to induce change, and in order to stand out from the crowd some people find the need to call their stuff something else than NLP. An example of this would for instance be Anthony Robbins, who I'm sure some of you at least has heard of. Robbins commercialised NLP and is doing what I call NLP light - giving you some tools but not the structure of the tools (making people return for more/better tools later in stead of teaching them the basics that allows people to create their own tools as needed). Robbins, of course, no longer calls this NLP, though almost all his stuff is NLP-related. Another example is the people behind the 3D-mind (see www.essential-skills.com)

For those of you still interested in NLP, you might consider reading the books "Structure of magic" I & II or better yet, read anything of or about Milton Erickson, the genious hypnotherapist who formed one of the basis for the development of NLP. The way he treated some of his patients seems to be pure and simple magic, and NLP gives you tools to explain and reproduced what Erickson did. I find most of Ericksons writings to be both stimulating and higly amusing reading. If you have any questions about NLP/Erickson and Huna, please feel free to ask. As I'm still travelling I don't know when I'll be able to check the posts, but I'll try to do it every now and again.

Cheers,
Lars
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Re: NLP and HUNA?


 emoticon It sure was very informative, lillielord.
    Like you described, NLP community in general is increasingly more focused on making money than helping people. And your Scientology comparison rings very true. About 15 years ago, I was audited all the way up to OT 9 or whatever. Cost me an arm and a leg. Pretty much the same thing is happening in NLP I suppose.
    Even now, Richard Bandler is making up more and more trademark stuff to get his NLP engine going. As for Tom Vizzini, well, I ordered his tapes and returned them on the first viewing. He hasn't got a clue. I wonder how a person like him can become a teacher in his own right.
    I studied Alfred Korzypski's Science and Sanity about 20 years ago. But can't remember much of what I read. Some said that much of NLP and Scientology is based on Korzipski's ideas. Would you agree?
     By the way, I only read a little bit about NLP - and its seduction application from RJ-, but I gathered that proper training is in order. But, most NLP people I talked to seemed to lack 'heart'. They just seemed like smart asses. If I decided to learn NLP properly, I'd really like to learn from someone who's truly caring and giving. Can you recommend anyone?
    Who was your NLP mentor? And who do you think, in NLP community, is the most learned in the field of HUNA?
     Cheers
  
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Re: NLP and HUNA?


I didn't exactly compare Scientology with NLP in general - I have way too little information about Scientology to make such a comparison. It was more a comment on Tad James' Huna courses and how he supposedly teaches very little content (which is also the case of Scientology, from what I've read). Maybe you can tell me a little more of Scientology, what it actually is and if it's worth checking into? If you're able to, that is emoticon

Now, in general, i think it is ok to charge people money, even a lot of money, if what they're teaching is usefull. I wonder why people think it's more acceptable to give their money to moviestars and business-tycoons. Are these truly the people who contribute the most to our lives? And although the "spiritual" teachers often isn't really that interested money, does that mean they should be next to beggars? Seriously, I think this is one of the major flaws in our society's thinking.

Specifically, I feel that I have been given very much value (usefull content) for my investments in all my NLP trainings. This doesn't mean that there are people in the NLP community who doesn't really know what they are doing, and who is obviously overcharging as a result of this.

About Tom Vizzini, I've actually been to his seminars. Although I don't think he's one of the best NLP'ers, I still feel he has something to offer. And with a money back guarantee, you really can't go wrong, right? I wouldn't say I was completely satisfied after the seminars however, and I think also some of the tapes they sell are kind of old now, and outdated. What were the tapes you bought?

You said you've only read a little bit of NLP through the SS stuff? Maybe you needed a little bit more of an understanding of the basics of NLP to find the essential skills videos usefull? As you point out, I would recommend going to a proper training where you can get realtime feedback and instructions to learn NLP. It's not very feasible to learn NLP from books (or even videotapes I would assume). And as Tom himself would ask (and probably did too!), did you actually try the stuff to see if it works, or did it just seem too strange? I don't know if you know this, but Ross Jeffries was actually introduced to NLP by Kim McFarland (Tom's partner) back when they were flatmates in college (or something). Although I'm not "intimately" familiar with Ross' stuff I think it's fair to say they've all influenced eachother. They've just taken the applications in different directions. I
f you find RJ stuff usefull, I'd be surprised if you didn't find anything usefull in the Essential Skills videos. But again, I haven't seen them. Tom clearly knows his stuff about anchoring, and also have some pretty interesting theories around rapport, amongst other things, though I haven't seen any of his tapes. And since coming up with the 3D-mind, Tom seems to think this is the only tool which will give you a lasting change. This is of course simply not true. I used to think Tom was great a couple of years back, but now he seems a bit to full of himself, basically telling his ways are the best. I would in no way replace my teacher with Tom for instance.

I'm not familiar with Alfred Korzypski's works, and to my knowledge NLP is not based on any of his ideas. But I know it has some basis in General systems theory, which maybe is what Korzypski's work was about? Main influences that I know of in creating NLP was (apart from the three genious therapist on their fields, Erickson, Virginia Satir and Fritz Pearls) Gregory Bateson and linguists such as Noam Chomsky. But like me, I'm sure you can find referances to concepts and ideas in NLP in lots of different sources. Whether they actually influenced NLP, or is just describing the same phenomenas - who knows, apart from Bandler and Grinder?

Now, finally, to your questions - who would I recommend? Well, certainly my trainer, Mike Cechanovicz. Although originally an American, he's been living in Norway for the last 25 years and conducts his seminars in Norwegian. He would just as easily be able to hold them in English, though he has no current plans to do so.

Apart from him, if caring and giving is what you're after, maybe Steve or Connirea Andreas would be the ones to choose? I'm not sure how much basic training these guys do anymore, but I know they had some in the summer of 2004. Also, you can't go wrong with John Grinder - but again I don't think he does much basic training anymore. Robert Dilts is also very good, but I'm unsure about how much of his training is directed towards business consulting these days. And this is not what you want, right? The same can be said about Ian McDermott. The persons I've listed here are more or less all #1 persons in the NLP community, but there might be other people that are more fitting to your needs. From my experience, it seems that all teachers have their own individual style, not only in how they teach but also what they teach. This to me is, of course, part of what makes the NLP community great. There's always places to pick up some new ideas from. Ross Jeffries is for instance totally different from John Grinder, who himself is more or less the opposite of Richard Bandler (these days anyways), whereas Dilts is yet again emphesises something totally different. You know what I mean. Let me know where you live, and I can try to recommend someone nearby.

As to who in the NLP community is the most learned in Huna, I must honestly say I don't know. Tad James is certainly the one who most actively advertises it. Tom Vizzini also has a some knowledge, which is evident through his money magnet stuff for instance, but I know he doesn't really believe in the Huna "model". There are a couple of other persons as well, but I don't remember their names right now. I'll be happy to look into it when I get back from my holiday. emoticon

Now, just out of chance, because I really do believe "coincidences" do happen, does anybody know of a good Qi Gong trainer in Chengdu, China. I'll be staying here for a couple of weeks and it would be great to learn some from a Chinese master...

Lillelord
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Re: NLP and HUNA?


  Thanks for your detailed reply.

   As for Scientology, it's not worth checking into.
    On the charging money front, Are there any NLPers who are compassionate enough to share what they've got freely with the less fortunate?
    Not that I am not 'able' to pay. Just that I personally witnessed even highly realized Tibetan Lamas willingly teach people with voluntary donation of whatever amount. That's what I meant by 'giving' and 'caring' aspect. I don't think NLP can offer what Tibetan Buddhism can't offer to their students on a deeper level.
   But, hey, I am biased as well. No flames intended.
   I bought Tom Vizzini's 3-D mind. The tapes didn't come with any booklets or notes. Very unprofessional. And it was badly edited. Most of all, Tom and I just didn't click.
  So, RJ was introduced into NLP thru Kim? Very interesting, indeed. RJ incorporated Tom and Kim's 3-D mind seminar as part of his own seminar these days as he did with Mark Cunningham in the past.
   I live in Seoul, Korea. Of course, there are some NLP seminars happening here on a small scale, but I'd rather take part in seminars being conducted in English from teachers who are more experienced and have some HUNA wisdom.
   Thanks.



Last edited by ebs10452004, Apr/26/2005, 3:08 pm
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