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Re: HUNA POLITICS


Aloha Two Bears,

quote:

I use the name huna on my website ONLY so readers of other huna books will have a frame of reference to what I am talking about. When I talk about this system I use one of the two terms I coined; pule me mana (pray with lifeforce energy), or spiritual technology.



I sincerely apologize if my post came off sounding as if it was directed negatively at your spiritual practices or any other religious authorities who also use the word Huna to apply to their beliefs.

My comments should have been shaped more precisely toward my disgruntled debate with Lani.

quote:

I also know kahuna Lani; and I tend to let his ramblings go in one ear and out the other; because a lot of the things he says about MFL just ain't so; and he was not appreciative of the fact that I used MFLs words to refute his claims.



Lani and I have clashed a number of times on the masterworksinternational forum because of his comments on the "Hunian language" which he says he's been working on, because he has repeatedly avoided validating his authority in the area whenever he has been challenged. I was just hoping that someone more akin to his type of spiritualism could be more persuasive in getting him to post in his "Hunian language." But of course I see that your honorable beliefs are not the same as his.

Because of the kindness, honesty, and lucidity of your reply, you and everything that you stand for has my endless respect.

But I am left with a couple question which you appear quite qualified to answer truthfully:

1) What has been your experience with the "Hunian language" which Lani claims to be a scholar in?

2) In your opinion, do you think that such a "Hunian language" exists, and if it does, do you believe that Lani can speak it?

3) Which one of Lani's beliefs did you refute with the words of MFL?

Jul/6/2006, 8:38 pm Link to this post Send Email to Nero Stylez   Send PM to Nero Stylez
 
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Re: HUNA POLITICS


quote:

Two Bears wrote:

quote:

The main thing that has confused me is that Lani is stating that MFL invented the 'Hunian' language by changing the Hawaiian language, and that words such as 'aumakua', which we refer to as the High Self, doesn't actually mean the High Self in Hawaiian.



Craig: Everyone is entitled to their opinion including Lani; but here is one time he is wrong. Several years ago; I was surfing E-Bay, and found a copy of a magazine printed in 1898 which had an article by a Hawai'ian, and in this article he talked about his spiritual roots, and he DID give thanks to his 'aumakua 20 years before MFL went to the islands.



The thing is, did he give thanks to his 'aumakua - high self, or 'aumakua - ancestral spirit?

quote:

1) What has been your experience with the "Hunian language" which Lani claims to be a scholar in?


Did he say it is a full-fledged language like German or English? IMHO it's thought to be a lingo, like chemists have their own lingo, mathemathicians, nuclear physicists or soccer players, so does the Lani's Huna Heiau Church. But I might be wrong of course...

---
Aloha, Tomas
Jul/7/2006, 1:25 am Link to this post Send Email to huna mind   Send PM to huna mind
 
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Re: HUNA POLITICS


quote:

The thing is, did he give thanks to his 'aumakua - high self, or 'aumakua - ancestral spirit?



As far as I am concerned; the 'aumakua, guardian angel, high self, suld, tunkashila, totem animal, etc are all the same thing just different names used by assorted cultures.

The same way that lifeforce energy is called chi, Itaki, Ki, mana, manitou, nuwati, orenda, prana, etc by assorted cultures and languages.

quote:

What has been your experience with the "Hunian language" which Lani claims to be a scholar in?



I have not seen enough of it to make a credible comment yet.

---
Aloha. Rev. Two Bears

"I hope you know this violates my warranty"Twiki
Jul/7/2006, 8:35 am Link to this post Send Email to Two Bears   Send PM to Two Bears
 
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Re: HUNA POLITICS


quote:

Did he say it is a full-fledged language like German or English? IMHO it's thought to be a lingo, like chemists have their own lingo, mathemathicians, nuclear physicists or soccer players, so does the Lani's Huna Heiau Church. But I might be wrong of course...



In the beginning, I asked Lani whether his "Hunian language" was a complete language in which people could communicate fluently with one another, or if it applied to a collection of terms which he used to describe his practices, but he avoided answering the question. He alleges that his "Hunian language" is largely based on "no-longer-spoken Hawaiian," and he relies heavily on the Andrews Dictionary of the Hawaiian language. Despite several requests, there are only a couple of examples he left of his "Hunian language," and they are extremely basic. For example, he wrote "Ke 'ai nei 'oia" (He is eating) and "Ua 'eha ko'u lima" (My hand hurts). Before commenting, I took into consideration his allegation that his language was genuine and that it differentiated from the Hawaiian language of the later part of the 1800s, as he claimed. Since there was a lack of people claiming to be Hunian speakers, I consulted someone who spoke the Hunian language's closest relative, if Lani's claims about the evolution of his language were authentic; that is, I consulted a third year Hawaiian language student. She looked at the two sentences Lani left behind and recognized them right away, giving me the exact translation Lani left on the website. She said that the two sentence patterns were very simple, some of the first sentence structures introduced to first year Hawaiian students with no previous experience in the language; one would expect such cases of similarity in structure since the Hunian language allegedly evolved from "no-longer-spoken Hawaiian," but it should be noted that Lani has posted and attempted to explain only remedial structures such as these. Then, the student reviewed more of Lani's comments on the Hunian language and found that he used the term "o emphatic" when speaking about the particle 'o; this term, she said, was used by Andrews and Alexander in their literatures concerning the Hawaiian language, but she commented that this classification was considered inaccurate and inappropriate by Samuel Elbert, as noted at the end of section 9.2 of Elbert and Pukui's book Hawaiian Grammar. This indicated to her that Lani based at least some of his linguistic theories on outdated Hawaiian language materials, or other information based on such materials.

Since Lani states that his language is different from Hawaiian and cannot be fully analyzed with only a knowledge of Hawaiian grammar, I took this into consideration, so I have requested several times for him to write a lengthy, well-constructed paragraph in the "Hunian language," and explain how the Hunian grammar works out from a Hunian perspective; this would certainly strengthen the claims behind the authenticity of his language. Nevertheless, he has repeatedly failed to follow through. As a result, I have grown suspicous, as would anyone else, about the validity of his supposed language and his authority in the area.

Given his noncompliance, and my interest in his alleged language, I took it upon myself to listen to recordings of his group of Hunians pronouncing Hunian words at this link
http://the-light-of-huna.com/Voice%20of%20the%20Kumu.htm, and I listened to an interview of Lani himself at this link
http://www.prophecykeepers.com/kahunalani.html. None of them conversed in Hunian, but they did say many Hunian words. Right away I noticed something interesting. Almost all of the words that they used in these recordings could be found in the Hawaiian Dictionary with the same or similar meanings, but in the words from the Hawaiian language with glottal stops and elongated vowels (both significant sounds in almost all Polynesian languages), Lani and his posse pronounced such words without the glottal stop and macron. I questioned myself, "Could this be the result of some kind of evolution in the Hunian language from that of the Hawaiian?" But, even in the word which Lani consistently spells oiai'o, he neglects to pronounce the glottal stop, and in it's place he inserts a very strong "y" sound, since the glide between the "i" and the "o" produces something like a y-glide, but his was very prominent, showing no trace of the 'okina consonant. That's when I remembered that Lani stated how he relied heavily on the Andrews Dictionary, which did not indicate the glottal stop (except in a couple of words, such as the first person singular possesives) nor did it indicate elongated vowels. The fact that in all words of Hawaiian origin which include glottal stops and elongated vowels, are pronounced with neither glottal stops nor elongated vowels by Hunians could be because they rely on the Andrews Dictionary and old Hawaiian language materials or work based on such old materials, in which neither glottal stops nor elongated vowels were indicated, with the exception of the inclusion of the glottal stop in some words as the first person singular possesives as I stated above.

As a result of Lani's avoidance of providing such examples as a lengthy, well-developed paragraph in the Hunian language with an accompanying explanation of the Hunian grammar behind it's Hunian constructions from a totally Hunian perspective despite much encouragement to do so, and as a result of his apparent use of the Andrews Dictionary and old materials concerning Hawaiian grammar or information based on such materials which neither included glottal stops nor elongated vowels and were in an early stage of development, and because of the oddities and inconsistancies of the pronunciation of Lani and his group of Hunians of Hunian words, it would be lucid to conclude that the "Hunian language" is severely limited and more of a lingo than a full fledged language as Huna Mind has stated, and that the knowledge and materials used to develop the "Hunian language" from Hawaiian was flawed.

Of course, because of Lani's advanced age, his status within his religious circles, and the large portion of his life which he has spent in Huna, he will no doubt fight tooth and nail to keep from being exposed.

What I have gathered can be double checked and employed by those wishing to do their own investigations in the "Hunian language," and I strongly encourage it.

Aloha

Last edited by Nero Stylez, Jul/8/2006, 1:11 am
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Re: HUNA POLITICS


quote:

speaking about the particle 'o; this term, she said, was used by Andrews and Alexander in their literatures concerning



Nero:

I am fond of saying the Andrews dictionary was 70 years out of date when MFL was trying to decode the Hawai'ian language.

As far as I am concerned; the Pukui and Elbert Hawai'ian dictionary published in 1971 is the present authority on the Hawai'ian language

---
Aloha. Rev. Two Bears

"I hope you know this violates my warranty"Twiki
Jul/8/2006, 8:40 am Link to this post Send Email to Two Bears   Send PM to Two Bears
 


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